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The ‘long war’ to subvert Iran, weaken Russia, BRICS and China is on hold. It is not over.
At one level, Iran plainly ‘won’. Trump had wanted to be regaled with a reality-TV style, splendid ‘Victory’. Sunday’s attack on the three nuclear sites indeed was loudly proclaimed by Trump and Hegseth as such – having ‘obliterated’ Iran’s nuclear enrichment programme, they claimed. ‘Destroyed it completely’, they insist.
Only … it didn’t: The strike caused superficial surface damage, perhaps. And seemingly was co-ordinated in advance with Iran via intermediaries to be a ‘once and done’ affair. This is a habitual Trump pattern (advance co-ordination). It was the mode in Syria, Yemen and even with Trump’s assassination of Qasem Soleimani – all intended to give Trump a quick media ‘victory’.
The so-called ‘ceasefire’ that rapidly followed the U.S. strikes – albeit not without some hiccoughs – was a hastily assembled ‘cessation of hostilities’ (and no ceasefire – as no terms were agreed). It was a ‘stop-gap’. What this means is that the negotiating impasse between Iran and Witkoff remains unresolved.
The Supreme Leader has forcefully laid down Iran’s position: ‘No surrender’; Enrichment proceeds; and the U.S. should quit the region and keep its nose out of Iranian affairs.
So, on the positive side of cost-benefit analysis, Iran likely has enough centrifuges and 450 kg of highly enriched uranium – and nobody (except Iran) now knows where the stash is hidden. Iran will resume processing. A second plus for Iran is that the IAEA and its Director-General Grossi have been so egregiously subversive of Iranian sovereignty that the Agency most likely will be expelled from Iran. The Agency failed in its basic responsibility to safeguard sites at which enriched uranium was present.
The U.S. and European intelligence services thus will lose their ‘eyes’ on the ground – as well as forego the IAEA’s Artificial Intelligence data collection (on which Israel’s identification of targets likely was heavily dependent).
On the cost side, militarily, Iran of course suffered physical damage, but retains its missile potency. The U.S.-Israeli narrative of Iranian skies as ‘open wide’ to Israeli aircraft is yet another deception contrived to support the ‘winning narrative’:
As Simplicius notes:
“There remains not a single shred of proof that Israeli (or American, for that matter) planes ever significantly overflew Iran at any time. Claims of ‘total air superiority’ have no grounds. [Footage] up until the final day shows Israel continued relying on their heavy UCAVs [large surveillance and strike drone aircraft] to strike Iranian ground targets”.
Furthermore, drop tanks from Israeli planes were recorded washing up on Iran’s northernmost Caspian shores, suggesting rather, stand-off missile launches were being mounted by Israel’s Air Force from the north (i.e. from Azerbaijani airspace).
Up a level in the cost-benefit analysis, one must move to the bigger picture: That the destruction of the nuclear programme was pretext, yet not the main objective. The Israelis themselves say that the decision to attack the Iranian State was taken last September/October (2024). Israel’s intricate, costly and sophisticated plan (de-capitation, targeted assassinations, cyber-attack and the infiltration of drone-equipped sabotage cells) that unfolded during the 13 June sneak attack was focussed on one immediate aim: the implosion of the Iranian state, paving the path to chaos and ‘regime change’.
Did Trump believe in the Israeli delusion that Iran was on the brink of imminent collapse? Very likely, he did. Did he believe the Israeli story (reportedly concocted by the IAEA Mosaic programme) that Iran was speeding ‘towards a nuclear weapon’? It seems possible that Trump was suckered – or more likely, was willing prey – to the Israeli and U.S. Israeli-Firster narrative building.
As the Ukraine issue has proved more intractable than Trump expected, the Israeli promise of an ‘Iran ready to implode, Syria-style’ – an ‘Epic’ transformation to a ‘New Middle East’ – must have been alluring enough for Trump to brusquely sweep aside Tulsi Gabbard’s assertion that Iran had no nuclear weapon.
So, has the Iranian military response and the massive popular rallying to the flag been a ‘big win’ for Iran? Well, it is certainly a ‘win’ over the ‘brink of regime change’ pedlars; yet perhaps the ‘win’ needs refining? It is not a ‘forever win’. Iran cannot afford to let its guard down.
‘Iranian unconditional surrender’ is, of course, now off the cards. But the point here is that the Israel establishment, the pro-Israeli lobby in the U.S. (and possibly Trump too), will continue to believe that the only way to guarantee that Iran never moves toward threshold weapon status – is not through intrusive inspections and monitoring, but precisely via ‘regime change’ and the installation of a purely western puppet in Tehran.
The ‘long war’ to subvert Iran, weaken Russia, BRICS and China is on hold. It is not over. Iran cannot afford to relax or to neglect its defences. What is at stake is the U.S. attempt to control the Middle East and its oil as a buttress to its dollar trading primacy.
Professor Hudson notes that “Trump had expected that countries would respond to his tariff chaos by reaching an agreement not to trade with China – and indeed to accept trade and financial sanctions against China, Russia and Iran”. Clearly, both Russia and China understand the geo-financial stakes surrounding a ‘no surrender’ Iran. And they understand too, how regime change would make Russia’s southern underbelly vulnerable; how it could collapse the BRICS trade corridors, and be used as a wedge separating Russia from China.
Put plainly: the U.S. long war likely will be resumed in a new format. Iran notably has survived this acute phase of the confrontation. Israel and the U.S. bet all on an uprising of the Iranian people. It didn’t happen: Iranian society united in the face of aggression. And the mood is more robust; more resolute.
However, Iran will ‘win’ all the more if the authorities seize on the euphoria of a united society to impart a new energy into the Iranian Revolution. The euphoria will not last forever – absent action. It is a paradoxical and unexpected opportunity offered to the Republic.
Israel, by contrast, having launched its ‘psychic-shock war’ to overturn the Iranian State, has quickly found itself in a situation where its enemy did not surrender, but responded. Israel found itself the target of large-scale retaliatory strikes. The situation quickly became critical – both economically and in the depletion of air defences – as Netanyahu’s desperate appeals to the U.S. for rescue, duly attested.
Moving to the wider geo-political cost-benefit level, Israel’s standing (at the regional level) of being unassailable when fused to American power, has taken a blow: ‘Think of it this way, in ten or twenty years, what will be remembered … [the de-capitation strike and the targeted killings of scientists] … or the fact that Israeli cities burned for the first time; that Israel failed to defang Iran’s nuclear program, and flopped with every other major objective it had, including regime change?’.
“The fact is, Israel suffered an historic humiliation that has destroyed its mystique”. Gulf States will have some difficulty to digest the larger meaning to this symbolic occurrence.
And though Trump’s electorate seemingly is satisfied that America participated in the war minimally – and apparently is happy to reside cocooned in a miasma of exaggerated self-congratulation – there is significant evidence that the MAGA faction of the Trump coalition, simultaneously is reaching the conclusion that the U.S. president is increasingly becoming part of the Deep State system that he so ardently criticised.
There were two key issues in the last U.S. Presidential election: immigration and ‘no more forever wars’. Trump, today, despite highly confusing and contradictory massaging, is clear that a forever war is not off the table: “If Iran builds nuclear facilities again – then in that scenario – the U.S. will strike [again]”, Trump has warned.
That – and the increasingly bizarre posts that Trump pens – seem to have had the effect of radicalising the Populist base against Trump on this issue.
For the rest of the world, Trump’s recent postings are disturbing. Perhaps they work for some Americans, but not elsewhere. It means that Moscow, Beijing or Tehran find it harder to take such erratic messaging seriously. Equally troubling, however, is how divorced from geo-political reality, in a succession of cases, Team Trump has proved to be in their situation assessments. Amber lights are flashing in many capitals across the world.
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Otherwise outlawed footage of Iran’s successful strikes on Israel:
https://twitter.com/angeloinchina/status/1938256536910106863
Good piece, Alastair.
Those who were predicting total Israeli domination of the region not too long ago (quite a few of whom frequent this forum) would be prudent to demonstrate a little more humility in their analysis. As an American, I fully understand the conditioning brought to bear upon them, but sometimes it can take concerted effort to wrest oneself of the delusion that our media is somehow more objective in its reportage than those of other nations.
It never has been, and as of late, it’s only getting worse. This is definitely an harbinger of our decline, which also heralds the decline of Israel, dependent as it is upon America.
What if winning in the grand chessboard means a slowly moving to full scale global WW3 ?
Even if future events go partially out of plan, at least one of the major goals will be achieved: create chaos, reduce global population, destroy many degrees of all shorts of freedom and reach the great reset.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SsutK9ITLjg
Coldplay stage gets stormed by inept Israeli.
well, by any means necessary, of course. this is the greatest democracy in the world…. of a all time and we always win. even if winning means losing. we are the mighty and pyrrhic zog, fear us, for as masters of the universe and we win at all costs. we lie, we cheat, we steal, that’s what we do, that’s the glory of the american experiment.
this is why our prophet told us, we would get tired of winning, it kind of sucks and makes you want to binge out on taco bell. our chosen leader, saved by the hand of god, is infallible, didn’t you see him in his pope halloween costume? mr. crooke, i would like to remind you that we are approaching the high holyday of independence day, (now known as tariff day), the 4th of trumplie (formerly july), you are treading sacred ground, tread lightly.
being a guest in our country, i know our ways may seem strange to you, i hope this helps you understand our unique and exceptional ways. if not we may have to deport you with elon.
Winning is getting to arbitrate racial disputes and define law for foreigners. When your name is Rosenberg KC. Note that Rosenberg is aware that many IDF dual citizens moonlight between the safe shores of England as Israeli pilots. Big open question that.
Video Link
I’ve got a bad feeling about this fourth.
According to The Grayzone website, Iran shot-down five US-made F-35 jets that flew into Iran via Northern Iraq (the Kurds are obedient agents of Israel).
Trump managed to appease his zionist supporters by joining the fray, then was able to stop the hostilities before the price of oil skyrocketed. Not bad for a day’s work. By appearing to be “erratic”, Trump manages to keep his enemies on their toes, questioning what he’ll do next, never sure how to react. Where is the disaster from his tariffs everyone was expecting? He’s far too leftist for me, but any fair observer has to give the man his due.
US is getting itself into the German Dilemma
By thinking they can force alliances against their rivals they end up fighting multi-front wars against a combination of affronted states
Yet their allies are not additive but subtractive in terms of enhancement
US needs to cut its coat according to its cloth
Candace can’t answer that question:
https://odysee.com/@CJBbooks.com:8/Candace-Owens-Fumbles-on-Zevi-Frank-and-Herzl:d
No, war isn’t over because war is a great distraction from who the real enemy is.
Trump just got his “big beautiful bill” through one house, if those who voted for Trump understood what that meant they would realise they’ve been had.
What is happening in the West is a slow realisation, by the citizen, that the freedom they believe they had is an illusion, they don’t live in a democracy and their government is more autocratic than some of the worst in history.
Governments in the West have used a matrix of misinformation, deception and mass obfuscation by the Ministry of Truth, the “free press,” that has ever been perpetrated in human history on a population.
I can understand why people are splintering into different ideological factions, they are attacked every waking hour with information, some true…most lies, it has an effect of disorientation, but the best way through this is to focus on the enemy, the shadow government and individuals and families at the top.
We’re watching a show and everyone is mugging for the cameras. How much of this is real? Probably none of it at all. Iran is still run by Abrahamists, just like all the other parties involved.
Trump has always been a tool of the Jewish DEEP STATE:
• He gangster-talks like them,
• he’s arrogant like them,
• he’s racist like them,
• he lies like them,
• he’s a war criminal like them, etc.
Meet the REAL deep state.
http://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/how-the-ashkenazi-jews-conquered-the-west/
Down with US imperialism and her genocidal rotten rat Zionism.
China Joins Iran in Persian Gulf – What It Really Means
Video Link
Where is the link? I checked the site, no such article.
Not that I wouldn’t want it to be true.
The aim of the Islamic Revolution in Iran was to stop this trend of degeneration of society as seen in the Western world where medicine with its drugs has replaced religion, where homosexuality and change sexe are encouraged and where the only true value is money and its power that rots everything. The fact of having placed God at the center of society in Iran attracted to him the whole of Western Freemasonry and also that of the Iranians who worshipped the golden calf. Without the wisdom of Khomeini and Khamenei, who were able to modernize Iran and make the country self-reliant and independent, the revolution would have already failed. Iranians have every right to be proud of their achievement and to no longer be a vassal country of the US or Great Britain. But as long as the Islamic Republic of Iran is alive, it must resist the aggressions and temptations of the Devil’s minions.
Iran had ended up with no useful air defense. Even if the Israeli and American airplanes did not penetrate Iranian airspace, advanced air defenses would have shot them down. Russia and China have advanced air defense systems, will they provide them to Iran? Is Putin working for the other side or not? Xi? If Putin does not supply Iran, he may have cut a deal with Trump. Trump has cut weapon deliveries to Ukraine. Putin has not yet supported Iran, except for lip service.
Wait a minute. Is this author saying that the assassination of Soleimani was “co-ordinated in advance with Iran”? I’m not a very bright person, so if anyone construes the quoted paragraph as meaning something different from that, please explain it to me. Otherwise, I’m a little flabbergasted.
“The Middle East Region Is Quieter Today Than It Has Been In Two Decades”
– Jake Sullivan; USA National Security Adviser September 2023
“Israel suffered an historic humiliation that has destroyed its mystique”
– July 2025
The damage from tariffs is on its way. Negotiations with key trading partners is going poorly. China is still not supplying rare earth metals, which is shutting down US avionics production.Trump backstabbed his conservative supporters who understand national debt is the greatest threat to the US. Interest on the debt is now larger than the defense budget. Trump is accelerating this debt accumulation, instead of reducing it. Trump serves Netanyahu and his genocide, not America. Because of blackmail material? Was Elon Musk right once again?
Did Trump call Candace Walker to tell her she had to stop talking about Brigitte Macron’s penis? What about the bullying of Thomas Massie, a true conservative, unlike the fake conservative Trump? Trump is the deep state.
Trump is very erratic, no it is not an act, unfortunately.
Funny how, contrary to the current ferocious image of Islam in the West, Iran continues to follow the teachings of Christ – to forgive one’s enemy, to turn the other cheek, to remain as peaceful as possible.
Whereas Islam generally regards Jesus as a great prophet – though emphatically NOT as “Christ”, the Messiah and son of God – Jewish teaching often depicts him as the worst man who ever lived. One source claimed that Jesus is doomed to spend eternity in hell, immersed in boiling excrement. (Dante missed that one).
I wonder how sustainable the Iranian policy can be. Islamic, undoubtedly. But can one go on indefinitely ceasing to fight as soon as the enemy does so? Surely that just guarantees perpetual passivity and reactivity – a big military handicap. Surely at some point – and it can’t be far off – Iran must make common cause with China and Russia to abate the nuisance permanently.
Incidentally, it would be comical if it were not criminal that the West indulges in daydreams about murdering the Supreme Leader. He seems to be almost the only person in Iran who remains implacably opposed to acquiring nuclear weapons. A marvellously humane and decent policy, too. It’s obvious that there is no earthly point in acquiring nuclear weapons if one is resolutely determined never to use them. So if they are acquired, they are likely to be used at some point. If you are absolutely unwilling to use them, you really must make sure that you never have them. Which is the current policy.
“US needs to cut its coat according to its cloth”.
No coat, then.
“If it wisna for the work o’ the weavers…”
boy, wouldn’t that be a prime time for a “terrorist attack”? we all know they hate us for our “freedom”, right? wouldn’t that get the “patriots” all stirred up? and guess who would be behind it all? that’s right, that damn ayatollah, whose been attacking our freedom since 1979, he may have changed his name slightly but he’s still wearing the same damn outfit he was in the 70’s.
wouldn’t that get the patriot blood boiling? we would have no choice but to nuke them, as trump has now proven, our biggest bunker busters weren’t enough to convince them, to stop their evil ways. remember what happened after 9/11, where every muslim was surveilled unconstitutionally, until they got caught and changed the constitution to make it legal. this will require a whole new patriot act, i’m sure. i pledge allegiance, to the false flag, of the united states of america…..
it seems the more things change, the more they stay the same. let’s hope we’re wrong and this is just a normal 4th of july, with americans getting drunk and blowing their hands off with fireworks. happy tariff day everyone.
And the Pakistanians shot down one hundred Indian planes a month ago… Muslims live in a world of fantasy.
{…and even with Trump’s assassination of Qasem Soleimani }
I clearly remember at the time — one or two days after the assassination — persistent “rumors” that Trump in reality didn’t know about the assassination (in advance), and that it was an Israeli+US.DeepState rogue operation.
Trump took credit for it afterwards, presumably not to look foolish……
{…contrary to the current ferocious image of Islam in the West, Iran continues to follow the teachings of Christ}
The current “ferocious” image of Islam in the West is clearly manufactured by Zionists in furtherance of their Eretz Israel dream.
However, Iran practices Shia Islam, a minority practice in the Muslim world.
Sunni Islam considers Shia Islam as heretic. Alawites, a Shia branch, were and are being massacred by Sunni terrorists in Syria, alongside Christians** — supported and embraced by Trump, Macron and the rest of the West*.
(Muslim) Iranians have been very tolerant and accommodating of both Christians and Jews, all the way back to Shah Abbas. Most likely even before him.
However, Sunni Muslims ARE ‘ferociously’ hostile to Christianity, as are (religious) Jews.
_____________________________________
* delusional nutjob FM Annalena Baerbock went Syria to kiss the bloody hand of the throat cutting cannibal, but he wouldn’t even touch the little piggy. This is how debased the West has become.
** during the invasion of Syria by ISIS terrorists (circa 2015), and after President Assad left the country, and Sunni terrorists took over Syria.
In my opinión this is the main takeaway.
The mystique surrounding US/ Israeli power is fading, and along with it the fear of the US and Israel. It’s really bad news for the Empire and it’s encouraging defection.
Who’s going to be next? Japan, Taiwan, Germany?
Yes, yes, everyone keeps telling me the tariffs are going to destroy the economy, yet somehow prices are down and foreign countries are negotiating deals favorable to American industry. Eggs are under $3 again, every car company is swearing they manufacture in the US and tech companies are building factories. I’ll believe the Smoot Hawley fantasy when it happens.
In martial arts there are schools that teach strict adherence to style and others that teach more unpredictable actions to surprise an opponent. Trump is a pretty successful guy, I get the impression that negotiations are his area of expertise. He might agree with Massie for all we know, but in his negotiation he has to act angry in order to get at least a large share of what he wants. Massie, as a congressman, has the option of being more pure in his wants.
And who cares about Candice?
“ Governments in the West have used a matrix of misinformation, deception and mass obfuscation by the Ministry of Truth, the “free press,”
Better call by its true name “the Judeo-Masonic Matrix.” It is very sleazy, very stealthy and a master of illusion. It makes people believe in it because they vote. The people are hooked into a loop of choosing between the Left and the Right and a variety of in-betweens. Nobody can pinpoint who’s responsible for bad policies for decisions are taken by majority voting by the “representatives” of the people. They sent American kids to die in Vietnam but they did not give them the right to buy alcohol. But the people cheer the system because it is Dumbocracy run by kakistocracy.
God bless the Old System when a good king could make a difference and a bad king would face the prospect of a humiliating dethroning and maybe the loss of his head. Kings and nobility could not hide behind a phony constitution which is interpreted by a crooked judiciary that decides at whim to replace the legislative branch, nor could they claim immunity by virtue of the popular vote.
American patriots, don’t forget to vote; Amerika depends on it and good luck with your next war.
Theater for the masses. We the audience don’t “know” squat. What little we “know” we get from pundits who “know” no more than we but at least get paid to opine. And we the audience pay for it just like in theaters through our taxes.
It is too early in the tariff process for anyone to claim success. Current tariffs as a baseline are at 10 %, except for China at about 50%, and for cars at 25%, except for cars made in Canada and Mexico. Japan is not backing down so Trump is angrily threatening Japan with a 35% tariff. Japan has never agreed to import rice from the US, as they view growing most of their own food necessary for national security. They won’t allow US rice to destroy their rice industry. Yet Trump is ranting and yelling about Japan and rice. Lack of rare earth metals shuts down production of very important military and commercial avionics, so just because one doesn’t see the effect yet, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening.
Trump is off the reservation regarding Massie. Starting a super pac just to unseat Massie is just more proof that Trump is a servant of Israel, not the US. Guess what, if Musk starts a third party, Trump will lose the midterms “bigly”. He will be impeached, although he will not be removed. This will be the end of his big beautiful budgets. Musk is now backing Massie. Effectively Trump will have consigned the Republicans to be a minority party. MAGA! remove Republicans from power by Trump’s sheer stupidity.
I love Candace , one of the very few who will stand up to Israel.
I agree it’s way too early to tell what’s going to happen with the tariffs, and up to this point it hasn’t destroyed anything. Yet all the chicken littles keep telling me the world is going to end any minute now. We’ll see, too early to make that determination.
If Mamdami and AOC start a 3rd party the dems will lose the midterms. Musk would be insane to give a win to those people. I don’t think he’s insane.
I wish Iran had refused the ceasefire, and instead, kept blowing Israel to hell.
I know they would have paid a heavy price, but goddamned Israel needs to be destroyed!
lol Perfect.
I do hope I’m wrong, though.
No blacks!!!!
Trump does.
This is simply not true.
Extremists among them constitute a small fraction of the whole.
Trump wants peace… he wants to stop the “dying”… and above all he wants to safeguard “the US national security interests.’ I think we need to eliminate the Palestinian threat to the US national security interests before dealing with Iran…..and later Russia and China…
“US approves $510 million arms deal for Israel amid Gaza genocide. The US government has approved a $510 million weapons sale to the Israeli regime, reinforcing Washington’s military backing as the regime’s genocide in Gaza reaches its 21st month.
The sale, approved on June 30, includes over 7,000 Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) guidance kits – 3,845 KMU-558B/B kits for the BLU-109 bomb body, and 3,280 KMU-572 F/B kits for the MK-82 bomb body.
Additionally, the agreement covers technical support, engineering assistance, and logistics services provided by the US government.
The US State Department stated that the arms transfer is intended to “assist Israel to develop and maintain a strong and ready [military] capability,” calling it “vital to US national security interests.”
The arms deal was approved through the Foreign Military Sales program and officially notified to Congress on Monday.
Boeing serves as the primary contractor, with a portion of the order likely sourced from existing US military inventories.
The damage from tariffs is on its way.
It is already here.
The bigley stable genius caused a contraction in the economy:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/gdp-report-first-quarter-2025-declined-commerce-department/
Great job.
Now for the red hat cultists to tell us it is all part of the plan.
First they told us that the tariffs will be good for the economy, then they said we needed to accept some pain. Trump reversed most of the tariffs and they told us that was a success. Everything is a success. Always a success. A loss is a success.
Now what? Are the tariffs good or bad? Did Trump provide you with a talking points memo?
Yes, yes, everyone keeps telling me the tariffs are going to destroy the economy, yet somehow prices are down and foreign countries are negotiating deals favorable to American industry.
The economy contracted in the first quarter and Trump wants to add trillions of debt with his big beautiful abomination that borrows money so billionaires can have a tax break. What a guy. Still on the Trump train eh? We should take bets on which poster gets off last.
Trump is a pretty successful guy, I get the impression that negotiations are his area of expertise.
LOL boy did you fall for his image.
It’s pretty easy to negotiate when you were born rich. Even if the other guy gets a better deal it doesn’t matter since you have plenty of daddy dollars.
Not as easy when you can’t solve a problem by throwing money at it.
“I will end this war in 24 hours” – Trump
What he and the Zion dogs learned was that Iran was not to be taken lightly and Isrhell was likely to get hammered once the paper dome was depleted and that was Irans MO the whole time.
They took forever to okay the closing of the strait which lends credence to arguments that it was not needed to stay on track for their overall strategic objectives.
Iran on a wise escalation ladder is not the Iran of old.
No. it is simply true.
One example: nomad invader Sunni Turks* exterminated the indigenous Christian peoples of Asia Minor. Christian Armenians, Christian Assyrians, and Christian Pontic Greeks:~ 4 million people total. Old men, women, children. Christian churches are destroyed, deliberately ruined, or turned into barns.
Sunni Islamist Erdogan just recently officially converted the jewel Hagia Sophia Church to a mosque.
Pope allowed Saudis to build a large mosque in Rome.
Any (Christian) churches in KSA?
I didn’t think so.
Try to preach Christianity in KSA, see how quickly you’ll be beheaded.
YES, it absolutely, unequivocally True: Sunni Muslims** ARE ‘ferociously’ hostile to Christianity. How many Christians left in the Middle East, after Islam spread from Mecca?
____________________________
* enthusiastically supported in the bloodbath by Sunni Muslim Kurds, and other Sunni Muslim Bashibozuks.
**At large.
Not every individual Sunni Muslim, of course.
One of the most humane, compassionate MDs we knew here in California was a Pakistani Muslim.
An interesting Vid by the incomparable Jimmy Dore.
So, basically, Zionist shill Piers Morgan has become, Ahem (!), anti -Semitic.(!!)
Also, Jimmy’s regular side-kick Kurt Metzger personally confirms (via a close Israeli friend) that Israeli Gov prevented people with Israeli passports from leaving Israel (!) during the 12-day mini-war with Iran.
In his words, Israel Gov kept Israelis hostage: imagine that.
[Israel & Zionist Viciously Turn On Piers Morgan]
Video Link
‘The arms deal was approved through the Foreign Military Sales program and officially notified to Congress on Monday.’ — ariadna
Thank you; I missed this news report. Time to write to my Congress Clowns again, as they let the executive branch walk all over them.
Currently I’m watching a ‘five-minute vote’ on an amendment to the rule for the budget resolution bill. It’s stretched to a couple of hours, as key Republiclowns huddle in their chambers.
A Democrat asked the chair for an adjournment, since Republicans are in hiding. The chair pro tem (Rep Steve Womack of Arkansas) replied that five minutes is a minimum, but no time limit applies. So the House of Ill Repute could just remain in suspended animation indefinitely, like a computer stuck on a ‘waiting for input’ prompt.
This is clowngov at its finest — a parliament of pimps, whores, pickpockets and racketeers, who have abandoned the premises on live TeeVee. Screenshot — ‘nobody home’:
https://postimg.cc/hJCg6S0Q
Crooke is crooked and nothing crooked grows straight. The man has spent his life as a deceitful liar. All those years in M16 in Ireland he was a fraud …he was a mountebank and a charltan and a snake oil salesman…he was a used car salesman peddling rusted junk under the hood . ..but now we have to believe him…
You have to read past the headline. There was an increase in imports sent by exporters trying to get products into the warehouse before the tariffs took place. It’s an anomaly. Today there was a report that Vietnam signed a trade agreement with the US that increases US productivity.
Do you really believe the US could continue on the path it’s been on? I don’t. Something had to be tried. Anything that brings jobs to the States is a good thing.
Trump was born wealthy, good for him. He didn’t rest on his laurels. His father had low and middle income apartment buildings. Trump expanded into high end real estate as well as other businesses. Whether you like him or not, and he’s much too liberal for me, he’s a successful man.
Do you think Israel should be taken lightly? How many Iranian leaders and scientists were they able to assassinate? How many Israeli leaders were killed? The US showed it could bomb Iran at will, if it wanted. Trump doesn’t want a war. And Iran was pretty fast to take the ceasefire, too. It wasn’t like they weren’t getting hit hard. Iran is zero threat to the US and not much of a threat to Israel. There’s no need for a war.
You have to read past the headline. There was an increase in imports sent by exporters trying to get products into the warehouse before the tariffs took place. It’s an anomaly.
I’m not confused by headlines.
The economy contracted in the first quarter:
Stop your pathetic attempts at damage control.
Everyone can see that Trump didn’t know what he was doing. Tariffs on, tariffs off. They are here to stay….nope they have been removed. His explanations were inconsistent and his whore fans made it clear that they would follow him off a cliff.
Trump was born wealthy, good for him. He didn’t rest on his laurels. His father had low and middle income apartment buildings. Trump expanded into high end real estate as well as other businesses. Whether you like him or not, and he’s much too liberal for me, he’s a successful man.
Anyone can buy working hotels with someone else’s money.
Someone did the math and pointed out that he would have made more money if he took his daddy dollars and put them in a safe mutual fund.
So no I am not impressed with this tax cheat who bragged in an interview that he cheated on his wife. He completely lacks basic morals and has never lived a day without being filthy rich. Idealize him at your own embarrassment.
Donald Trump is finally blooming as the most convicted big-government liberal the USA has ever elected. Having renounced any and all connection to the MAGA movement founded by Steve Bannon, he’s doing all the things any Democrat of my generation could only have dreamed of doing.
What a guy!
June 21, 2025 Remarks: Donald Trump Addresses the Nation After Iran Air Strikes
Video Link
Jun 26 2025 HEADLINES: US intel leak. Abraham Accords return. GHF suspend aid
Video Link
That’s not why Iran wanted a ceasefire. Why do you think they demonstrated they could strike U.S. bases? The U.S. would get it’s ass handed to it if it got into a serious fight with Iran. Stop pretending like it’s the same army and military force of the 1940s. I doubt Iran fears the U.S. Plus Trump using anything close to a nuke shows that he’s a pussy who has no confidence in the military what so ever. It’s a shame that none of these nations don’t just unite as one and jump the shit out of the U.S. on their own soil. They certainly get what they got coming to them for all the nations they’ve hurt doing that exact same thing.
America also can’t fight the whole world, and anyone believing that it can is just being an egoistical imbecile. They’ve only managed to destroy the Middle East because the Arabs are mostly idiots just like the negros are. They are so damn unorganized, but Iran would be a different force and personally I believe they could take the U.S. in a fight. The U.S. don’t have hypseronics, that alone would give Iran the bigger advantage.
No, it simply isn’t.
When Jerusalem was taken over by Muslims, ‘Umar refused to pray in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher after having been invited to do so by the Christian Patriarch Sophronius. His reason? Had he done so, Muslims would have converted it to a mosque, thereby violating the sanctity of the church.
It’s important to understand that ‘Umar was a contemporary of the Prophet, so he would have been more familiar with the original understanding of Islam and shari’ah.
His was a precedent that set the general standard for the Sunni Muslim world for centuries to come, which is why, for the greater bulk of more than one millennium of Sunni Muslim history, Christians living in dar al-Islam were able to practice their religion and adjudicate their internal affairs according to their own jurisprudence. It’s why ancient churches and monasteries in the Muslim world are still standing and used for their original purpose to this day.
Incidentally, Christians did not accord Muslims the same courtesy until Muslims set that precedent.
You’re cherry picking particular periods of a history that spans more than fourteen centuries and characterizing the entirety of it by them. Rome, FWIW, is not the Vatican per se, and many parts of the Vatican remain off-limits to non-Catholics. Sunni Muslims have no issue with this, as they’ve generally respected the sovereignty of non-Muslim houses of worship. As for the Hagia Sophia and a smattering of other examples, they’ve been the exception to the general rule.
Your viewpoint is much like that of radical leftists who decry the entirety of American history by focusing specifically on its many manifestations of racism and brutalization of African slaves.
As if America has no history other than this.
I don’t need to do “damage control”. I’m not a Trump guy, he’s way too much of a leftist for me. But I do have some investments and I pay attention to the markets. I explained the “contraction” to you. If your TDS prevents you from understanding, or accepting, it’s no hair off my ass. Do with your opinion what you like.
Using a nuke makes you a pussy? That’s funny.
Why would terrorists want to attack us, since the U.S. is in
a Zionist- led death spiral of our own making?
Be patient, my enemy.
You didn’t explain anything. Mumbling about exporters is not an adequate explanation of a GDP contraction. It’s a poor excuse.
Trump said there would be an “economic boom like no other” when he was running for president.
He didn’t say he would change his mind a dozen times on tariffs and cause a contraction.
Get off your knees already. It’s pathetic.
False flag.
The US path? Massive debt default, deflation, and reorganization, likely including a CBDC. Coming soon to a third world crap hole near you.
Something? Really? Throw some knee-jerk crap against the wall and see if it sticks? How’s that ever worked out?
Jobs returning to the states? Facts nowhere in evidence. Lack of worker qualifications and/or willingness to work for subsistence wages, not to mention corporate financial uncertainty regarding having a 2 year old child in charge will put paid to that fantasy.
The repulsive ZOG regime is now more isolated than ever….. Great success…
Before Trump we were already headed to 3rd world craphole status. Something had to be tried. Maybe you and all the anti-Smoot-Hawley cult members will be right and the tariffs and promises of jobs won’t work. I think the globalists who want to impoverish Americans are in favor of open borders and “free” trade that favors low wage countries. Trump’s guys are trying to get around them. If you have a better way, let us know, instead of shit-talking someone else making an effort.
Is the US isolated? I don’t see it. They signed an agreement with freaking Vietnam today. They’ve been shaking hands with the terrorists in charge of Syria, Europe is still under occupation. American troops are partying in countries all over the world. Some of you guys are funny, you think your fantasies are real. Even Israel is doing okay. They occupy half of Syria, Hezbollah is quiet as a frightened child hiding from his drunken stepfather, Jordan shot down Iranian missiles, the Palestinians are abandoned, living in misery. And Israel has the full support of the EU, the UN and Nato. Face the facts. Or at least try.
This statement, by the way, is a ham-fisted distortion.
For six centuries, most Christians of whom you speak lived under the auspices of Muslim rule enjoying the right to practice their religion, and the historical record is clear that they maintained a presence there for this duration.
You then conflate the Armenian genocide with this period. Surely you know the same parties responsible for that genocide executed, imprisoned or forced into exile devout Muslims through a protracted series of secularizing ‘revolutions’, no?
Listen to the interview, you Islamophobic/antisemitic son of a swine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tog35UINyBE
Good point, and I’m assuming you are thinking of the Kennedy
assassinations, the USS Liberty and 9/11. The U.S. Marine
Barracks Bombing in Lebanon (1983) is a possibility also, since
only Israel benefits by dragging Americans into its wars.
Thanks.
Chaos will not resemble a movie. Jews are leaving Palestine in sufficient numbers it can be said to be an Exodus. Where will Jews find refuge if the dogs of war a let out by them?
The dogs of war will run before the horsemen of the apocalypse. These Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are figures described in the New Testament’s Book of Revelation!
They symbolize conquest, war, famine, death!
The White Horse: Often interpreted as representing conquest and pestilence.
The Red Horse: Symbolizes war and bloodshed.
The Black Horse: Represents famine.
The Pale Horse: Represents death and Hades. The rider is identified as Death, and Hell follows him.
If it came to be widely understood that the Jews were responsible for WW III the resultant chaos will consume hundreds of millions of the Goyim and every last Jew! Then there will be blood running in the streets. The material world will be destroyed along with the protagonists.
The White colonists lived happily with the native Indians in America at first. So what? It didn’t stop the Whites genociding the natives, stealing their land and sending the survivors to reservations. All the Middle East and North Africa used to be Christian before the Muslim invasion. Christians now have to live in fear that they will be murdered when they congregate for mass in Cairo, in Damascus, even as far as Jakarta in the Far East. Do you have any empathy for these Christians that have to suffer under the Muslim yoke or all you do is keep standing up for the Muslims when they are criticised for their misdeeds?
“Trump said there would be an ‘economic boom like no other’ when he was running for president. “
One quarter out of sixteen does not define Trump’s second term.
“(stomping little foot) He didn’t say he would change his mind a dozen times on tariffs.”
Tariffs are negotiable, dearie. A competent negotiator will adjust them to achieve the optimal outcome. This is especially true when you’re negotiating with multiple countries, and you haven’t finished all the negotiations yet.
“He promised to end the war in 24 hours.”
Tsk-tsk. You take obviously hyperbolic pledges seriously. “Don’t worry, kid. We’ll be there in no time.” “But daddy, we’re not there yet. You said it wouldn’t take any time.” “It was just a figure of speech, honey.” “You LIED, daddy. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah! I’ll never trust you again! Now I want to go home!” “We’re not going home, sweety. Now stop your blubbering before I smack you one.”
“Trump will use a nuke!!!”
More fear porn. Ho hum.
Don’t forget OKC. That was proof of concept for 9-11. Could you get interagency cooperation in the investigative and coverup phases of a large op? Worked like a charm.
First rule of escaping a hole you’ve dug yourself into: STOP DIGGING!
It’s also true. As the commenter said, it exposes a lack of confidence in the military’s conventional capabilities and reinforces a pattern already established that the world is divided into a 1st world nuke club who can do whatever they damn well please and everyone else who must grovel at their feet. Technology is always inevitably self-leveling. Those who don’t have nukes now will before the century is out and where will we be then? Everyone throwing petulant little fits and threatening nuclear Armageddon?
Of course it does. Why do you think the United States is the only one to use one? Prove how pathetic were just to defeat Japan. It’s like fighting a guy with your bare hands, but then you take out a gun or knife and shoot or stab him because your too afraid to get your ass kicked. That’s exactly what using Nukes are like. They are terrorist weapons for one thing, and two why do you think there is an article on here saying “Will Bibi ask Trump to nuke Iran?” It’s because he did all that shit talking and after getting ass kicked by Iran, he wants to nuke them. It’s a cowardly way of fighting a fucking war just like targeting civilians. Just accept you got your ass kicked by a better military force and move on with your life. Would you kick a guy in the genitals in a boxing ring if he happens to be a better fighter than you are? Okay then.
Second rule of escaping a hole you’ve dug yourself into – don’t just sit there doing nothing. Try something different. Tariffs are something different. And they really piss off globalists. More than deporting illegal aliens.
First of all, let’s dispense with this ‘lived happily’ myth. Interjecting ‘happiness’ is misleading, whatever conquest we’re talking about. At best, there was comity between the conquering party and the conquered.
Avery focused on Asia Minor specifically because he’s Armenian and has an axe to grind. He’s entitled to grind it, but this also disqualifies him as an objective observer. For the greater bulk of history, Christians living under Muslim rule were not ‘genocided’, and if you’re seriously comparing the land theft of European settlers in America with that of Muslims in the MENA region, you’re not going to win that argument. By and large, Christians kept their property under Muslim rule unless they proved hostile to it. Modern reservations constitute a tiny portion of the land Native Americans were legally promised, even when Natives honored their treaties.
To be accurate, it was Roman before it was Christian.
You see… We can play this stupid game all day long. Romans invaded, occupied, and despoiled those regions, often enslaving their inhabitants. When Christianity became the official religion of the empire, within a brief period, its rulers forced the religion upon its subjects by the sword. Muslim leaders — with very, very few exceptions — did no such thing.
Have you actually lived in any of those places, or are you just getting cherry-picked news from sites top heavy with Zionists? You do know which parties are most involved in advancing the ‘clash of civilizations’ paradigm between Christians and Muslims, don’t you?
And comparing Cairo with Damascus these days? You’re not being serious. You’re just throwing out place names where you heard some stories once upon a time.
I’m actually familiar enough with one of those places to call bullshit on your claim.
Obviously, you haven’t understood anything I’ve written here.
Avery made the absurdly false claim that ‘Sunni Muslims ARE ‘ferociously’ hostile to Christianity’. I corrected him with undeniable facts and he couldn’t respond.
Is correction of this falsehood the same as ‘standing up for Muslims when they are criticized for their misdeeds’? This is how you see things? Seriously?
This site is rife with guilt-by-association anti-Islam/anti-Muslim innuendo. Ironically, the individuals who traffic in it are often the very same who bristle at guilt-by-association anti-white/anti-Christian innuendo.
You’re assisting the divide-and-conquer strategy of an enemy common to Christians and Muslims, then complaining when the left lumps ‘white supremacy’ in with Zionism. Oblivious.
No one “genocided” American Indians. There are more Indians alive today than before Whites settled and modernized the land. Tribes that were peaceful and worked with European settlers prospered, many intermarried and converted to Christianity, living out their lives in peace. It was only hostiles, who raped, kidnapped and murdered who found themselves suffering justice. You’ve been very poorly educated. Charles Curtis was elected to the US Senate in 1912 and served as vice president in the 1920s. He was a Kaw Indian who worked peacefully with Whites and did well. Just stop with the “genocide” nonsense.
Tariffs are negotiable, dearie. A competent negotiator will adjust them to achieve the optimal outcome. This is especially true when you’re negotiating with multiple countries, and you haven’t finished all the negotiations yet.
If you were passing tariffs to bring back manufacturing then no it would not make sense to negotiate them back to levels that are less than punitive. You would leave high tariffs on countries that you are targeting to disincentivize manufacturing.
Maybe look at all your Trump defense notes since he took office.
His tariff explanations don’t add up and are contradictory. He described the resulting fallout as “medicine” as in we need to accept a price for long term gains. Then he contradicted himself by negotiating with China which he had depicted as the main problem. He also never explained his tariffs on Canada over border controls.
You take obviously hyperbolic pledges seriously.
It was not hyperbolic. He want on Hannity and said that he could sit them both down and get a negotiated settlement within 24 hours. He made that claim repeatedly.
You previously gave an excuse for the first quarter on the basis that it was merely the result of exporting shuffling.
Well have a look at this:
Consumer confidence drops sharply in June:
https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/consumer-confidence-falls-sharply-in-june-062425.html
Trump also wiped out billions in tourism revenue by running his fat mouth.
Canada tourism nosedives
https://www.newsweek.com/us-canada-tourism-boycott-2059927
So will Trump’s promised economic boom happen this quarter?
Did you have an excuse for Trump’s plan to add trillions to our debt? Or was his promise to balance the budget also hyperbolic bullshit that we weren’t supposed to take seriously? Did he break that promise or was he full of shit? Which one?
Last month (June 2025), native born workers in the US gained 830,000 jobs. Foreign-born workers in the US lost 348,000 jobs.
I guess you’ll complain about that, too.
As for tariffs, give me the specific ones you’re complaining about. List them for 30 countries. Let’s see if there’s any substance to your claims.
And tell me how continuing existing tax cuts is “adding trillions to the national debt.”
Tell me how DOGE cuts would be adding to the national debt.
Tell me how kicking 1.6 million illegal aliens off of Medicare would be adding to the national debt.
Tell me how negotiating with Iran, Russia and Hamas (which Biden never did) would be adding to the national debt.
If the nips didn’t want to be nuked, they shouldn’t have made war on us.
War isn’t about fighting fair. It’s about winning and minimizing losses on your own side.
“All is fair in love and war.”
Well said.
Only the most tenuous connection can be crafted between 9/11 and the OKC bombing by Timothy McVeigh. McVeigh was motivated by revenge since he saw the Ruby Ridge and Branch Davidian massacres as egregious Government overreach, which they were. He looked for a “soft” target.
McVeigh’s moral reasoning and logic were deeply flawed. Government crimes were a very poor justification for the savage, revenge murder of 168 mostly civilian employees and their children.
Besides that, who doesn’t know that the government is a dumb beast, incapable of learning
anything except how to be more oppressive.
Anyone who knows anything about those countries would know that there have been individual and mass murderous attacks on Christians in Egypt, Syria and Indonesia in recent times. Why should I hide these facts because it somehow plays into the hands of the Jews? The truth is the truth. Of course there are many more Muslim countries where Christians aren’t attacked but that is because there are no Christians left there to attack. I guess that shows how tolerant those Muslims were in that past.
Whites did in America what the Jews have done in Palestine, stolen other people’s lands. There were both settled Indians and nomadic tribes, and they have been deprived of their lands from the east to the West coast. Now you say there are many more Indians in America than when White settlers arrived. In America you call any White with a drop of Indian blood a native Indian so it may be so. Just like you call any White with a drop of Black blood a Black but are they really? You call all those Black Americans with a drop of White blood Blacks, when by the criteria Americans use they could just as well be called White.
You’ve been completely miseducated. Indians who leave the reservation aren’t counted as Indians. The reservation population has increased, the “one drop rule” referred to negros, not Indians. You should find whoever taught you all these lies and slap him across the face. You were lied to. There were only about 1 million American Indians in the continental US when the Pilgrims landed. They were small, primitive tribes. In the Northeast, war between the Iroquois and Algonquin had left most of the land uninhabited. You are flat out wrong. Does your brain work well enough that you can get past the propaganda and see the truth? Or are you too soft and comfortable sticking with the lie?
Have AI summarize your writing for the past 50 years, and then have it construct expressions that deliver the precisely opposite meaning.
Thats ‘winning’.
Thanks for the support Mike.
This thread is a bit long in the tooth, and other more important things to take care of: so I’ll see you at some other thread.
There will surely be other occasions for our side to challenge the Islamist proselytizers here @Unz.com.
Online Madrassas.
Don’t know if you remember a poster by the handle [Talla].
He was a Pakistani Muslim, living here in US since he was a child.
(Parents immigrated from Pakistan)
Married to a Swedish woman.
Very erudite, polished debater.
At one time Ron awarded a Gold Star to about 6-8 regular posters for being notable posters. Like the Golden Frame for a great post, but these were permanent for those posters. [Talla] was one of them: well deserved, in my opinion.
He was of course an Islamist proselytizer.
Thoroughly Americanized, so was quite persuasive — to those who don’t know what Sunni Muslims have done to Christians worldwide, which is 95%+ of Christian Americans.
Anyway, he was having a debate with another poster about Jerusalem.
The other debater was arguing that Muslims have no business in Jerusalem: it is the birthplace of Christianity. A Christian city since Day 1. Muslims are invaders there*. They went back and forth for a while, and finally [Talla] lost his cool and polish. He said in effect “we, Muslims, shed a lot blood taking it, so we belong there….” . This is the essence of Sunni Muslim thinking and worldview. Take by slaughtering old men, women and children, and it becomes yours. Like all the lands that were previously Christian and are now Muslim.
______________________________________________________
* I think at this point in time Jerusalem should be taken out of the State of Israel and become the The State of City of Jerusalem. Like Monaco. Shia Muslims of Iran consider their part of Jerusalem — albeit taken at the bloody point of a sword — Holy, and I have a lot of respect for Iranians. Christians, Jews, and Muslims can come and go and worship unmolested. As it is, Christians and Muslims are constantly harassed and terrorized by the crazed Orthodox Jews and the Zionist government.
Now you’re pivoting from those countries’ capitals to the countries themselves. Duly noted.
Originally, you mentioned Cairo. There hasn’t been an attack on Christians in Cairo for nearly a decade. Contrary to your characterization, Christians in the city are are not cowering in fear for their lives, and anyone who has lived there for years could tell you this.
Statistically, those perpetrating such attacks in the countries you mention still remain infinitesimally low compared to the general population of Muslims. One would doubtlessly find more violent crime committed by non-Muslims in America. But since you mention them…
Prior to the American invasion and occupation of Iraq, the frequency of attacks on Christians in the Muslim world was so low as to warrant virtually no attention. Ironically, the extremists carrying out those attacks engage in the very same kind of guilt by association fallacy you yourself are entertaining. News of Christian animosity toward Muslims in Iraq traveled fast. Add George Bush’s characterization of the onslaught as a ‘crusade’, as well as the systemic murder of newlyweds in Afghanistan, and we had ourselves a recipe for worldwide, religiously motivated animus.
(In case it needs to be spelled out for you, I did mention ‘fallacy’ when referring to those Muslims’ rationale. In other words, I’ve never justified it.)
You’re trafficking in innuendo, associating those attacks with Muslims per se while any serious analysis would have us conclude they are statistically rare in the greater Muslim world.
Ignorantly false. Do some more homework before you speak on this topic.
Seriously.
Fact: Long before Muslim conquered MENA, Romans had invaded, occupied, and despoiled it, often enslaving its indigenous inhabitants.
Fact: Not long after the emperor’s family converted to Christianity, subjects of the empire were forced to become Christian upon pain of death.
Fact: After the Muslim conquest of MENA, Muslims did not impose such religious proscriptions upon their subjects.
As such, Muslims effectively liberated the people of the region.
So many countries, so much ferocious hostility toward Jesus.
Nearly a decade ago isn’t ancient history you bring up in your counterarguments.
As far as I can tell, mosques and madrassas are basically factories of hate. Not that I’m saying it isn’t justified in some instances. If the crowds steam out of mosques in Tehran, Islamabad and wherever screaming: “Death to Israel! Death to America!” who am I to complain? But it is what it is – hatred. Before America and Israel existed, they wouldn’t have been preaching that, but perhaps hatred of “infidels” instead. Some preachers maybe focus on the spiritual self-development aspects of Islam but many focus on political and social issues. Again many of those do deserve to be criticised. I doubt you will find most Islamic hojjas preaching peace and love.
I certainly have no problems if Muslims stopped targeting Christians altogether and gave them the same freedom to practice their religion in Muslim countries the way Christians allow Muslims to do.
Sure, but some of those countries in the left hand column don’t allow Christians to practice or preach their religion while all those in the right hand column allow Muslims to practice and preach, including Israel.
I agree that Jerusalem should be a free city open to all three major religions and internationally administered. Such an authority should suppress all forms or religious intolerance and attacks on objects of worship and practicioners of all three religions.
Folke Bernadotte introduced this idea in 1946 after securing release of large number of Jewish and non Jeiwsh priosners in 1945 . He was duly rewarded by Stern gang . By the way ,city was open to all for hunderds of years before 1948.
It is .No,I will say that it was until now .
It is changing again .
But
it was limited to the exclusive period of micromanaging and meddling by UK -US in Saudi affairs for
this purpose . History is replete with instances of UK amd US
subverting liberal secular nationalism grassroot movements across
Nigeria,Pakistan, Indonesia, and from Mali to Afghanistan . To subvert
,religion has to to be introduced as force.Relgion becomes political
force by becoming intolerant repressive and corrupt. Alternative is
kind of Liberation Theology .That would never have been allowed by
US.Actually moderate preachers have been killed and US UK did not get
all shook up .It was run of the mills, regular stuff to them. Right
now they are according heros welcome to ISIS leader ,the new head of
Syria.
Insulting Jesus is not ‘allowed’ in the Judenreich-it’s encouraged.
By that metric, Chicago is a decidedly hostile place for Muslims. After all, a six-year old Palestinian boy was stabbed 26 times and left to bleed to death there less than two years ago.
But you’ve gone far afield from the original point:
Not a single instance of Muslim-on-Christian violence is perpetrated solely because Islam is allegedly inherently hostile to Christianity. Not one.
More often, we’re talking about old family disputes, grudges held for generations. Sometimes, if ordinary violence crosses religious lines — one way or another — it’s perceived as an attack on the victimized community, thereafter spiraling into inter-religious conflict.
But the initial spark is almost never ‘He’s Christian/Muslim. Get him!’
That is truly a cartoonishly infantile way of looking at these countries.
lol
Have you ever actually spent time in one or the other? Not just visiting or touring, but studying what goes on in there?
You really sound clueless.
You mean ‘to proselytize’.
I once knew an ex-ARAMCO brat, an individual who basically spent a good span of her childhood as a Christian in Saudi Arabia.
She said they held Christian services at the base where her family was stationed, a large compound. Beyond this, I doubt that efforts to openly practice or attempt to convert others would be allowed, but it remains false to say that practice of Christianity is forbidden completely in SA.
SA is opening up, though. Afghanistan is stricter. The rest of the countries, however, have practicing Christian communities, so you’re still incorrect.
Yes most ban Christians proselytising (trying to convert Muslims) but some ban preaching if they ban churches and priests. What happens on US military bases is outside the control of the governments hosting them.
In some of those countries, like Pakistan, mosques even preach hatred against each other and then the members of one mosque attack another, burn, kill. You don’t hear of Christian churches in those Muslim countries where they’re allowed to operate getting their parishioners to engage in terrorist attacks on mosques or other churches.
OK, I guess Cat Stevens doesn’t preach hatred in his Islamic madrassa.
Aside from SA and Afghanistan, no Muslim dominant country with a Christian population has proscribed churches or priests per se. Feel free to show me otherwise.
ARAMCO is the national oil company of Saudi Arabia, not a military base. Many of its employees are expats.
Wow. The mainstream media really has worked a number on you.
I doubt you can find a single Pakistani mosque in over a quarter of a million of them that fits your description. You’re far more likely to hear vitriol against Islam from American church pulpits, sermons to soothe the conscience of parishioners looking for a reason to rationalize the daily massacre of Palestinians. After all, America’s responsible for over 4.5 million dead Muslims since 9/11 and its citizens don’t really seem to give a damn about that.
Christians in Muslim countries don’t need to engage in terror attacks on mosques or other churches since the dirty work’s been farmed out to their western brethren in faith.
Memories are long in the Muslim world. They haven’t forgotten the storied legacy of Christian missionaries, the proverbial ‘good cops’ of western colonial enterprise, whose guise of altruism served the purpose of subjugating natives rather handily.
You seem to think this legacy can be neatly separated from what America and its western cohorts have been doing in Muslim lands since Sykes-Picot, propping up tin-pot despots left and right. I don’t think you’ve seriously considered how Christians in those lands receiving regular support from western countries waging war against Muslims across the world might be perceived locally.
Of course, attacking churches is a bit extreme. Kind of like collectively blaming Muslims in the UK for rape gangs. *cough*
Now, there was an investigative report in the UK a couple of decades ago that exposed a local mosque for its extremism. It was well done, good journalistic work and entirely plausible, yet it underscored the fact that such mosques are the rare exception to the general rule.
Invited to speak at the Global Terrorism Research Center, David Cook, professor of the history of Islam at Rice University, explained that the best way to inoculate Muslims against extremism is to place them in a madrasa and teach them traditional Islam:
There you have it: Sage counsel from an expert in his field that completely undermines Avery’s claim.
What’s the difference? From what I can gather, those expat compounds in Saudi are off limits to the religious police. I don’t know if it is on orders of the government or the Sharia cops don’t want to pollute themself dealing with the filth that goes on there. The levels of deprivity and perversion in those expat Saudi compounds are off the charts. So the odd priest there among all the perverts isn’t going to bother them much.
You might be interested to know the Saudi religious police have been stripped of a lot of power since 2016.
Interestingly, they were originally formed in the mid-1970s.
Recommended reading:
Rise and fall of the Saudi religious police
https://www.arabnews.com/node/1558176/saudi-arabia